This is an exciting day for me because today marks the beginning of my blog on the wonderful We Write Romance website. I was delighted when Heather suggested I contribute regularly to the site by blogging about what I know best: grammar and writing.
After much discussion, we decided to call this blog “Carolynn’s Clues” because that’s basically what I want to do: offer pointers and information about common mistakes in grammar and usage, as well as discussing ways to improve our writing.
I welcome questions regarding any aspect of writing from the most basic English grammar and usage questions to the more involved queries regarding writing skills such as point of view. My blog will be scheduled for the second Tuesday of every month, so be sure to watch for it.
Basically, I plan to address current issues as I become aware of them through my reading or through discussions on my various writers’ email loops. And, of course, I’ll respond to your questions. Remember, “There are no stupid questions,” so click on “Contact Carolynn” above and tell me what’s puzzling you. I’ll respond in next month’s blog.
As I’m sure you’re aware, the English language is in a constant state of change. New words enter our language on a regular basis. For example, the verbs “unfriend” and “Google” would not have been recognizable just a short time ago.
As words are being born, other words die away. My daughter gave me a calendar that is based on “Forgotten English,” and the word for January 21 was “mothery,” defined as “Thick, mouldy, as beer or vinegar when stale.” I’ve never heard the word “mothery” used, but I’ve heard the word “mother” applied to the film that forms on old vinegar. This definition of “mother” is still in modern dictionaries, but it’s not something I hear on a regular basis. How about you? Are you familiar with the word “mother” as it applies to vinegar?
But I digress. What I really want to talk about today is a trend that I believe will eventually result in a permanent change in the language. I’ll confess right now that I’ll never be happy about people using the subjective case when the “rules” of grammar say the objective case is called for. But these days many people would say, “You’ll be working with Mark and I” instead of “Mark and me.”
This topic came up recently on one of my email loops that’s limited to published writers. One writer complained about hearing the incorrect usage “with Mark and I” on television recently and another pointed out that this usage has been around on television for a long time.
Another writer mentioned that her father had taught her to leave the other person out of the sentence to judge correct usage. In other words, if you wouldn’t say, “You’ll be working with I,” then you wouldn’t say, “You’ll be working with Mark and I.”
Yet another chimed in to say she is convinced that many people believe “me” sounds pedestrian while “I” sounds lofty. As a matter of fact, the writers of the Q&A section of The Chicago Manual of Style Online refer to the usage error “with Mark and I” as a “genteelism” because people think it sounds proper even though it isn’t.
Additionally, according to the Chicago style manual, “ill-schooled and insecure writers and speakers engage in what linguists call ‘hypercorrection,’ misapplying the rules governing pronouns by using the nominative where the objective is called for (as in the mistaken form between you and I for between you and me).”
I don’t about you, but I would prefer not to fall into that “ill-schooled and insecure writers” category. At the same time, in my opinion, the trend is definitely toward using the subjective case rather than the objective case following prepositions.
What about you? Do you cringe when you hear someone say, “You’ll be working with Mark and I”? Or do you even notice? What about “between you and I”? Does that usage grate on your nerves or does it sound perfectly normal? Chances are, as the incorrect usage continues to be used regularly, it will eventually be universally accepted.


on February 9th, 2010
Nice blog post.
One of the problems is that rather than expecting kids to meet a higher set of standards, those standards have been lowered, to make it look like no one is being “left behind” and that we are keeping up with Asia in terms of producing intelligent people, which we aren’t, not really anyway.
That’s also something else I’ve noticed too, that to get some students to want to learn, they have been accepting/using some bad grammar. While I admit that it’s a great tactic to get kids to learn, it’s counterproductive for all those students who really want to learn as they won’t learn as much as they would otherwise.
How many of you remember learning your basics as early as second grade? Or learning long division in third grade? (it’s taught in 4th grade these days and they are allowed to use calculators on their tests.) Just curious!
on February 9th, 2010
You make some excellent points, Carrie. I feel fortunate in that I had some fine teachers in the early grades and especially good English teachers in high school. I wonder how much emphasis, if any, is put on the basics of grammar these days.
on February 9th, 2010
Good points made here on the blog and I know there are some who has no idea how to express them selves in a proper manner. I know I am not perfect but I feel sure my grammar is in fairly good shape. susan L.
on February 9th, 2010
I’m like you, Susan in that I think my grammar is in fairly good shape but I know I also make errors, usually when I’m trying my best to be perfect. LOL